Friday, October 8, 2010


There is a status makng the round in Facebook and it is full of lies. (So what else is new?)  Here is the version I found on my newsfeed:  I will keep the poster and any respondants other than myself anonymous.

if you cross the north korean border illegally u get 12 years hard labor if you cross iranian borders illegally you get detained indefinitely. if you cross afghan borders you get shot. cross the saudi border you will get jailed. cross the chinese border you will never be heard from again.  cross venezuelan borders you will be branded a spy and have your fate sealed. cross teh cuban border you will be thrown in prison to rot. HOWEVER, cross the United States order illegally, you will get a job, a drivers license, a socials ecurity card, welare benefits, food stamps, credit cards, susidized rent or a loan to buy a new house, free health care, the right to vote, and all without speaking a word of fucking english. this should piss Americans off, and I am truly offended by illegals. "Fuck Off, We're Full"

I had to respond, and I did so, thusly (note:  many people are inclined to ignore proper usage of capital letters in common online conversation, be it a private or instant message, an email or a post; I am no exception):

Gail M Feldman:  simply untrue. illegals can't vote; even legals can't vote unless they become naturalized citizens. illegals can get only the most menial of jobs, jobs you would eschew, for well under minimum wage (to whom can they complain?), and no hea...lth benefits. their welfare use, except for food stamps, is minimal; what they do get, they get to support their children, only if the children were born here. no one has children in america just to get benefits, and there are at least two good reasons for that: 1. they only get them FOR the children so they make no "profit" from that and 2. they would not even break even, as the benefits are insufficient even to support a child. i know this because i have BEEN on welfare. i was living on $203 a month.

illegals cannot legally obtain socal security numbers or drivers licenses, but of course can cheat to get them... as can and do natural born citizens, sometimes (more, in fact, and unlike illegals, who only get these things in order to survive, natual born citizens who get them by cheating do so for the purpose of comitting crimes!) they do NOT get free health care. more than half of them actually pay taxes (but do not get, for those taxes, the benefits citizens get). they also pay into social security, even though they cannot get benefits.

not all illegal immigrants are unable to speak english! and some very legal immigrants cannot (my grandmother never learned much english, and she was here legally, thank you very much).


there was a brief response from a (male) friend of the (female) poster's:

still we are full!

now... that means it doesn't MATTER than the original post was vastly inaccurate, and it also is rather meaningless UNLESS you're not actually against ILLEGAL immigration but rather are against ANY immigration.  i tried again:

Gail M Feldman:   we aren't full. when we get full we may as well no longer be america anymore, because america is the melting pot. when we get full we may as well blow up the statue of liberty because her words will no longer be true. and we wouldn't IMAGINE we were full if corporations were not saving themselves billions of dollars at our expense by outsources jobs to third-world countries.

Still ignoring the fact that everything in her original post, at least the part pertaining to America (I have never been to North Korea) was shown to be untrue, the original poster added:
but we are full. We have our own problems, and our own people to worry about, then supporting illegals.. that should be at the bottom of our priority list..
So I tried AGAIN:
Gail M Feldman so does that make any of the untrue stuff true, or saying that it is true, when it's not, right? we aren't supporting illegals. to a large extent, in some areas of the usa, they are supporting US. in most parts of the usa, they're not muc...h of an issue at all. and we are NOT FULL. (but on the other hand, if the duggers would stop having babies, that would help!)

Her friend had the following intellectual contribution:
ok, i get it you like immigrants
Again, note that we keep changing the original topic from ILLEGAL immigrants to immigration itself.  But he wasn't done, and made another post right away:
or if the illegals would stop making money and sending it back to thier families in there home country maybe the value of our dollar wouldnt be going down so much
Then another male friend of the original poster's chimed in:
ya know your g-parents were once illegals :) you should have said Mexicans. They cross and breed.. Woops! Sorry chris hehehahahahahaha!
Well, I was unable to determine to whom this new voice was speaking; nobody who had posted so far was named Chris.  But  I'm pretty stubborn, so I tried yet AGAIN, even though now the first two were just piling one ridiculous unfounded accusation upon another
Gail M Feldman: ‎""ok, i get it you like immigrants""

1. i like or dislike people based on whether or not they're good people, not whether or not they were born where i was born. so yeah, i like some immigrants (such as my grandparents and their parents and siblings) and some i can live without (i won't name names).

2. i thought we were talking about ILLEGAL immigrants; are we now talking also about legal ones?

3, your response indicates that you DON'T get it.

That of course was hostile of me; I try hard not to call name or characterize.  I try hard to stick to facts.  However, when others don't make the same effort, I get testy.  I continued at length, kindly refraining from correcting spelling errors (that just irritates people):
Gail M Feldman:  ‎"or if the illegals would stop making money and sending it back to thier families in there home country maybe the value of our dollar wouldnt be going down so much"

this too is a myth. our dollar is going down because corporations are outsourcing jobs and not allowing american production to regain the quality it once had (not to mention depriving willing american workers of good jobs).

most illegals can only send money home if they, themselves, live in abysmal conditions, sacrificing their own welfare to support their starving families back home. most can't even send anything because they barely have enough to live on. meanwhile they are paying taxes and paying into the social security system, although they get no vote (and i agree, they should not get the vote, but it's not an issue; they don't have the vote and no one is trying to give it to them; the ONLY reason i bring it up is that even so, they do pay taxes) and they don't receive social security. (again, not only is that proper, but no one is trying to give them social security; there WAS a bill on the table in congress that would have provided for FORMER illegals who became legal -- which isn't easy -- to get credit for social security payments they made while illegal, but that bill was tabled and never considered again. it was never voted on and probably never will be. the only reason i bring it up is that despite this, they DO pay social security contributions. so i am being supported at this moment partly by illegal immigrant.)

as it happens, my mother's father's mother was forbidden, back in ukraine, to marry her boyfriend. her folks didnt like him. they arranged for her to marry a rabbi's son, who himself became a rabbi. she had three kids with him and was pregnant with a fourth when he suddenly died. ukraine was a pretty dangerous place for jews to be, and she had no way to survive as a widow with three and a half kids, so she emigrated to the u.s. (her baby was born on the ship!) in new york, she ran into guess whom? her old boyfriend! he told her he, too, had married but his wife had died. since they had been childless, he, too, had emigrated to america. the two married and had more kids. then one day there was a knock at the door. it was my great-grandmother's new husband's SON, coming from the old country to say mama had died. her new husband had lied; he was still married to a living wife at the time he married her, and he had five kids back in ukraine, and one of them was now standing on their doorstep! she forgave him (would you? i don't know if i would!) and they worked very hard to bring the rest of his kids over. yes, that means they sent money out of the united states. horror of horrors! (how come it's okay for big corporations to send money and jobs out of the united states, HUGE money, LOTS of jobs, but we're yapping about some illegal immigrant sending a couple bucks to his starving family?) somehow their doing this did NOT destroy the american economy, or take jobs from americans. my family hasn't got a single drug dealer, rapist or criminal in it (except of course for the bigamist!) we do have a guy who thinks he's jerry lewis, but he was born in philly, as far as i know.

To the original poster's credit, she never devolved into namecalling or told me I was an idiot.  I actually do respect that, by the way, as horrified as I am at 1. the spreading of lies and 2. the lack of logic I continually encounter.  This is how she responded:
 i just think that if you want to be here, make an effort to be LEGAL.. instead of comin here expecting everyone AND there G'PARENTS to pay your way to live here
Well if that is JUST what she thinks, how come her original post was not to that effect and instead said outrageously untrue things designed to stir rage in the hearts of innocent Americans who (since so few people actually know how to check facts) might actually BELIEVE that crap?  But I did not say that.  I said, instead:
Gail M Feldman:  i agree. but it's not always possible, and i would like to point out AGAIN that nobody and nobody's grandparents ARE paying for illegals to live here.


Her response betrayed a wee bit of irritation:

that's crap.. they live off welfar, they can go to the hospital no problem and they can drive a car around with no registration, no insurance, no problem. I support the fact that the DUI checkpoints here in santa maria arent'e vven for DUIS, but for the illegals that go through town. last week, one person was arrested for dui.. 12 were arrested for being illegal and not having permission to even go around in their car.. sot hat's ok then?? to have illegals driving aroud illegally? living here illegally?

To whichof course I had to reply:

no none of that is okay. (and obviouly it WAS a problen; they got caught.) but that doesn't mean all illegals are doing that, any more than the fact that legal citizens sometimes rob banks makes all legal citizens bank robbers. it's not a sensible or logical conclusion.

by the way, NOBODY "lives" off welfare even the lowliest job pays more than welfare.


p.s. i would rather have a sober illegal alien driving a car than a drunken legal citizen doing so.

I should have added that I was speaking from personal experience but I was hesitant to open myself up to accusations such as those I have heard before, born of ignorance, urging me to go get a job (I'm disabled: I was on welfare while waiting for Socia Security to come through; it only took 13 years).  Even so, this was her response:

just because the lowliest job pays more than welfare, doesnt' mean that there aren't people in the USofA that just want to live off welfare and do nothing else

and wether they are drunk or not has nothign to do with it. would you just like a...n illegal driving around not taking any responsibility for his own actions
My response was the last entry in the thread.  She and her friends gave up... posting.  I doubt they ynderstood any of my points, mostly because they did not WANT to understand them.  Understanding them would have obligated them to rethink their positions, or admit their positions were held despite the truth.  Here, then, is how I finished the conversation:
Gail M Feldman:  no but given a choice between the crime of being an illegal alien OTHERWISE obeying the law and a the crime of dui, i find the dui more dangerous.

and yeah there are lazy people in the world. there aren't any more lazy illegals than there are lazy citizens. there is no evidence, much less proof, that illegals are lazier than legals. in fact they tend to work damned hard. i'm not saying people should not obey the law. i'm saying that an AWFUL lot of false accusations are being made.

That was that.  Silence.  The problem is, her original post is viral -- remember, she copied it from one of its many, many appearances -- and people are NOT countering it with facts.  They're responding with "Yeah, kill those illegals, they're all rapists and drug dealers," and they're not talking about Swedish immigrants; they're talking about darker-skinned immigrants, since blue-eyed blondes never commit crimes and are welcome to emigrate here to America any old time.
I can see the tears trickling down Lady Liberty's cheeks.  Someone hand me a tissue....


One of my Facebook friends asked whether Teabaggers actually believe what they say.  I responded thusly:


It is hard to figure, isn't it? I think they all go to some hypnotist and say "Make me believe; I'm gonna talk trash and I wanna be SINCERE."

And then the hypnotist says, "Okay, but first let's sell the election to any foreign power with the moolah to make us all richer than we already are, which of course is almost impossible, and then let's make sure that the trash you talk results in a clean, white, christian, heterosexual, male-dominated America, for I just happen to be white, Christian, hetero and male, and I'm afraid of losing any of the power that currently redounds to that, for I have no inner resources and would not succeed if relying purely on my personal integrity, which, by the way, has anybody seen?"

And then the pols listening to this have not actually understood two-thirds of it, so they nod and say, "so hypnotize me already, Doc, I've got a campaign to run. my opponent is hitting 'em with FACTS. I have to hurry out and drown those with some big bad lies, which is why I need you to swing the pendulum for me in the first place, Doc, so can you hurry it up?"

The hypnotist, not liking to be rushed, adds a little something to the mix when he's got them under, just for spite. and that is why Teabaggers lick their own genitals. BECAUSE THEY CAN (and because no one else will.)